The Gaming Den

I was talking to a friend earlier today about wanting to some day actually get a bunch of people together and shoot the shit out of each other with nerf guns, and possibly whack said shit out of each other with nerf melee gear. Somewhere the idea entered my mind of making it based on girl genius with people dressed as jaegers and sparks, with steampunk modded guns.

Now my mind wants to actually turn this into some kind of live action minis game, with points one uses to equip themselves and sparks, jaegers and clanks actually having special abilities.

I figure this is probably a pretty stupid idea. I also figure that actually playing would be stupidly fun.

so I need help brainstorming abilities for this stuff, and figuring point costs and pools.

So far I've thought about small hit point pools, sparks being able to take a period of time to repair a clank on their side, a process that can be interrupted to defend, but the total time amount still has to pass, and maybe allowing jaegers some kind of "healing" ability.

I'm also vaguely considering point pools to be large enough for some one to, say, be a Jaeger Spark but only have a sword to start with until he manages to loot a gun.

'live action minis game'

Please explain.

-rejakor

I didn't want to say role-playing, because it'd just be combat, and I didn't want to say war gaming, because that has it's own connotations, but minis-games tend to have similar mechanics to what I'm looking at, with unit stats and points for army construction (though I'd just use points for individual ability purchase, with armies just being a roughly equal number of people who each individually have the same number of points for ability/weapon purchase)

Don't use the Nerf Swords, those things are not safe.

The axes, so some degree, are. But the swords, all three types, are not safe.

Those cardboard tubes that Xmas paper are wrapped in work pretty well, at least for a few hits.

When I do sparring or games with LARP components, I make wooden weapon replicas out of plywood and sand off the edges, sometimes combined with some light padding using worn-out rags and towels. Then again, I stick to my real-life group, who can be relied upon not to hit too hard or in especially vulnerable areas.

If I wanted to use something a tad less potentially harmful, I would probably actually just buy a bunch of baguettes and maybe let them age a bit. No sharp edges, and if you keep the bread in its bag it can take a surprising amount of trauma. Also cheap and readily disposable, so I wouldn't need to get a new bin for less-hazardous props. And it gives me an excuse to buy more delicious San Francisco Bay Area bakery products.

This probably won't work for you, but myself and a few of my compatriots sourced a skip bin filled with balsa wood. Rather than carting it off and selling it or something (shit is expensive), we instead used them as makeshift weapons in possibly the most fun i've ever had in my life. They were all cut to thick poles, pretty much impossible to hurt someone with due to the light weight and relative softness. They snapped like crazy, too.

Judging__Eagle wrote:Don't use the Nerf Swords, those things are not safe.

The axes, so some degree, are. But the swords, all three types, are not safe.

how so?

In the creation of a larp boffer you have a few things to take into account:

-width of weapon; it has to be about 2" wide, if not an unexpected/random swing to a person's eye can go deeper than desired, impacting an eye.

None of the swords are 'wide' enough at their tips to be safe

-thickness of foam; you don't want to feel the core when you press with your fingertips into the material. Tips of cores are given extra precaution; and all 'tips' on weapons are always given a 'tip' made of open cell foam on top of everything else.

The Nerf Weapons can have their cores felt along the edge of the weapon shaft, not enough foam. The thrusting tips are also very unsafe, the ends of the cores are too close to the surface, and the tips are not safe enough

-structurally sound; you do not want a boffer to come apart in your hands. If it does, someone could get hurt, and at the weapon is no longer safe, meaning you can't keep using it. Downtime is the last thing you want

The nerf weapons, are whippy at specific points. That's a very key indicator of structural unsoundness.

The Nerf Warlock is probably the safest of the nerf melee weapons; but even then, it is unsafe is used with two hands; because it will start to whip back and forth. The foam on the edge of the blade is something that I'd be safe with being hit in the face with, since it's very soft, and won't dig into an eye socket.

Headshots are something to be avoided (every larp that I've ever heard about emphasizes that, and any attacks that hit from the neck upwards do not count in-game; "Headshot" is a call that players are expected to make to warn a person who is making them from making them), but a weapon must be safe if it hits someone in the head.



My own boffers are something that I've come up with over the last three years by talking with a lot of other players who make their own boffers, and sell them.

Materials

-1 Carbon Fibre Golfshaft: buy at a thrift store, Amity, Salvation Army, Value Village, Goodwill, etc. This sets me back 3-4$ CDN

-1 Length of Beige foam; this needs to be as long as the shaft, with about 1 1/2" past the tip of the shaft. If you live in the States, this is actually possible to get. If you live in Canada, seriously, the best bet is to find a local Larping group, and find out who sells the most weapons there. Those people tend to order boxes of hundreds of 6' lengths. This should cost you 5$ for a 6' length. You can buy grey foam, and layer it, but it's heavier, since you're using glue in addition to foam. Using a foam spray adhesive like Slutyer Easy Stik Feather 470 Spray Adhesive (it's a specialty spray foam used for making open cell foam stick together

-1 Cork, with a hole drilled into it 1/2 way through, that is as wide as the tip of the golf shaft. This will 'widen' the tip of the golf shaft so that it won't force it's way out of the foam and stab someone; depending on whether you drink wine or not. A decent bottle goes for about 7-12$ in Canada, and that's with our retarded taxes on alcohol. I don't know what your local situation is like regarding wine. however any light, solid, substance can be substituted. A length of rubber could be used as an end-cap instead of a cork. Just make sure that it's not too hard, you want 'some' give.

Seriously Budweiser and Jack Daniels are as, ir not expensive than local things that are higher end (a Bud is the same as a Canadian and Jack is pricier than Crown Royal).

-1 Roll of Foam Mounting or Backer tape; Seriously, dollar store.

-1 plastic garbage bag, long enough to wrap the length of the foam

-2 pieces of open cell foam, 2" squared

-1 plastic grocery bag

-1 pair of black/brown/w/e color nylon stockings; either dollar store, or 7 year old girls stockings. I use dollar store and then use both legs on a boffer

Tools:

- Sharp knife; anything with a retractable blade (Olfa brand, or knock-offs); or a very sharp edge (Cutco, or Henkles if you can't get Cutco). I personally use both Cutco kitchen knives, since they'll go through anything meant to be cut, and keep their edge; and Olfas, since they have a good long straight edge for cutting into blocks of foam, or sharpening/shaving soft pencils and woodless carbon pencils (the olfa is part of my charcoal drawing tools).

- Scissors; nothing fancy, just to cut scotch tape, and plastic grocery bags

- Duct/Duck tape; Duck brand, or dollar store. I always recommend black coloured Duck tape, for some reason the glue on it is very different than from other colours that the company makes. Gorilla Tape also works for a long-lasting weapon.

- Scotch tape

- Hockey Tape or Tennis Racket grip tape

Steps:

- Cut the golf club head off of the shaft, if you wanted to play golf, you wouldn't be using a cheap golf club to make a boffer, now would you; you'd be playing freaking golf. You may need to file

- Mount the cork on to the end of the shaft, you shouldn't need to glue it on, friction should hold it in place

- Measure your foam to your weapon core (the golf shaft), and trim so that it fits, with about a 1" to 1 and 1/2" distance from the end of the cork. Make sure that you have a good fit, and you'll notice that the foam will rattle around the core; that will be remedied.

-You will need to cut a 1" section of foam, this will be cut in half, and used to 'fill' the gap that occurs in the foam, since the tip of the cork will be 1" shy from the tip of the foam. The other half of this foam section will be used in the making of the pommel/waylay tip

- Run a length of foam backer tape down one side of the golf shaft; then again on the other side. A Golf club shaft is narrower than the pipe that the foam tubing was meant for. Also, you want to anchor the foam to your weapon's shaft. Your mantra should be "nothing moving or shifting". You'll run a length of FBT on both sides; and maybe even have to do 2 layers. That's fine.

- Make sure that the amount of foam tape used has widened the core so that it will touch and make contact with, the inner diameter of the beige foam tube. You can't easily remove the beige foam if you fuck this step up, and might ruin everything if you're not careful.

- Open the seam along the length of the Beige foam, you're going to wrap it, not slide it, over the now sticky weapon core

- Carefully, very carefully, place the foam along the now foam-taped weapon core, and make sure that it all fits snuggly; with the foam tubing well sealed along its seam

- Give it a few squeezes along the length to make sure that the foam and the backer tape are sticking to each other.

- Take one 2" square block of open cell foam; and cover it in a single layer of plastic grocery bag. Hold the bag in place with a layer of scotch tape. Now, your thrusting tip will not get destroyed after years of use and abuse.

- Wrap the tip and top quarter of the beige foam with plastic grocery bag, and hold it down with scotch tape

-Use duct/duck/gorilla tape to hold the open cell to the end of the weapon tip. Since both sides have grocery bag on them, you can replace the duct tape, and the grocery bags, with no problem; and your foam inside will remain undamaged. The foam inside can seriously last years and years before it needs replacing; as long as it is kept dry, doesn't get ripped up, and doesn't have tape always ripping pieces out of it when you rebuild it.

- Take the black garbage bag; and place it over the length of the boffered weapon; I find that placing the weapon length along one edge of the inside of the bag, then rolling the remainder of bag around the weapon works well. You can use a piece of scotch tape to hold this in place, or not

-Take the Nylon stockings, and cut the legs off; throw out the remaining portion

-Place both stocking legs over the tip of the weapon, and pull them all the way down; tying the edges of the stocking into a knot; keeping the whole thing together.

-For the pommel; you'll repeat the same steps as you did with the length of the weapon shaft; however you only need to cap the base of the golf club handle; and place the other 2" of open cell foam on top of that.
The result is a very light, very solid, and very long-lasting weapon. The Nylon can be painted easily, meaning you can have a very nice looking weapon if you want.

Also, you didn't have to spend 40-200$+ on your boffer, and it should pass inspection at most larps.

You know, so many of these safety issues (including the "no headshots" rule) would be easily solved if LARPs were not inexplicably averse to requiring some sort of headgear for their combatants. It doesn't even need to be something bulky and/or expensive, like an SCA-style helmet or fencing mask, to do the trick.

Bulk head gear is
1 expensive (30$ CDN min for a bike/baseball helmet; 100-200+ for a 14 Gau. steel SCA style) ; and
2, doesn't cut it when it comes to getting insured.

Having a "rule" that say "we don't allow/condone hits to the head, even with saftied boffer weapons" helps keep insurance rates lower, and every larp that I know of has at least 1 mill in insurance, with many having 2 mill in insurance.

Most larps tend to be active at night, as well as day; so things like visibility are pretty important.

Also, the aesthetics of playing a spell caster, who must wear a helmet, are going to wear pretty thin, considering that you could just go to a larp that has no headshot rules.

Finally, the "no headshot" rule keeps people from acting like dicks, and hitting people in the head, because I know it will happen.

In any case, there aren't really "many" safety issues at larps; and I've seen more people have been hurt playing other sports (and badly too) than I ever have heard at a larp.

Seriously, baseball can be more dangerous than larping, and any inury that I've seen, or had from larping had nothing to do with combat, and more to do with bumping into a log in the dark; or someone banging into a picnic table in the dark. Larp combat is very safe, and allows people with a very minimal equipment budget to take part in it.

It's never meant to be 'real' fighting, and does take a bit of practice to learn, especially if you have any sort of martial training; since you're using a different type of strike than you would in real life. However, that's not much different than SCA, which also has restrictions on where you can, and can't strike; and how much needs to be armoured, or not.

SCA is all knees up, with footstrikes prohibited/resticted; larp is whole body, with neck-up disallowed; and breast/groin shots allowed if you're fine with karma (b/c seriously, you always get it back in the groin if you got someone else). Both are very different styles of fighting, and the equipment for one, does not carry over well to the other.

SCA fighters tend to lose when they first larp-fight; b/c while they are used to fighting with sheilds and swords; their enemy is also used to striking legs; and in SCA leg-strikes are either uncommon, or just not done. Which results in the larper raising their sheild high; exposing their own knees/shins; and then hitting their enemies knees/shins that aren't expecting incoming hits. Many long-time SCA fighters often get embarrassed in their first fight that uses different rules; since they are still acting under their previous training, which discounts "knees to feet" as viable targets.

The corollary of course is that a long-time larper will not expect shots to go straight for their head, even if they are told, and are wearing appropriate equipment. Depending on which SCA chapter you are in, the headshot is considered either the pinnacle, or just an other viable target; so they practice hitting those targets; and the larper won't have practice moving their head to dodge a strike to it.


Also, an other main difference between SCA and larp combat is that in the SCA, fights are held in matches; and people who are in combat have to wear helmets. For the most part, you don't need a helmet if you don't plan on actually fighting; and that's fine. For a larp though, everyone is "in" the game, and can be attacked using the game's rules. For such a case, you want some pretty well defined rules on what is safe, or not, for everyone to use.

I know LARPers are cheap and all, but you can get a fencing mask online for $30 to $60. Wrestling style headgear + a face mask will run $30 to $60 as well. Either of those options would provide sufficient ear/face (and possibly eye) protection for boffer weapon combat. Both seem smarter than relying on the "no headshots" rule too, as accidents are an inevitability.

While we're on the subject, I've always wondered about the insurance issues regarding LARPs.

How can the SCA function with the fighting rules it operates under and LARPs need to disallow head shots entirely in order to make the insurance manageable? Is it because LARPs always seem to be structured somewhat like for-profit franchises of a specific game system? (Are you playing NERO? Amtgard? LAIRE? Something else?) Is it because the SCA functions on a liability-waiver basis and generally doesn't allow minor combatants? What's the deal?

Depending on which SCA chapter you are in, the headshot is considered either the pinnacle, or just an other viable target....

From what I've always understood, the SCA (well, at least Trimaris) preference for the headshot is that it's harder for an opponent to rhino-hide those hits. Plus, it's a cleaner, more satisfying, more definite "kill" shot. The thing you have to remember is that a touch, if it isn't to the face mask, doesn't count for anything in the SCA. You have to hit people, and you have to hit them hard.

there's also the fact that I'd just be doing this with a bunch of friends and could just tell them "no aiming for the head, don't be dicks" and we'd probably be ok. It's not like I have to deal with the greater dick and idiot populations here....

Prak_Anima wrote:there's also the fact that I'd just be doing this with a bunch of friends and could just tell them "no aiming for the head, don't be dicks" and we'd probably be ok.

When I went fencing doing the "hitting-with-sticks" component of LARP, we used to have a rule that a hit on an armored head was instant death for the defender but a hit on an unarmored head was instant death for the attacker. So the pros went bareheaded even against steel. I won a tournament by taking a CEM sword to the eye (also, most participants were too chicken to hit a girl).

Starmaker wrote: When I went fencing doing the "hitting-with-sticks" component of LARP, we used to have a rule that a hit on an armored head was instant death for the defender but a hit on an unarmored head was instant death for the attacker. So the pros went bareheaded even against steel. I won a tournament by taking a CEM sword to the eye (also, most participants were too chicken to hit a girl).

Thanks for the anecdote. This is exactly the sort of shenanigans I worry about promoting when you declare no contact areas AND couple that with a penalty for doing so.